Imagine working for the same employer for 23 years, building up your pension, and then surpassing that monthly stipend using another route within 30 months.

It’s not a pipe dream, it’s Thurman McKenzie’s reality after joining Tardus back in early 2020.

Thurman joins Adam Schroeder and Zach Lemaster to walk them through the nitty gritty of how the whole process works. From the coaching, to the investing, to the flipping, and everything in between. Listen to Thurman’s story and find out how something like this can really kick your real estate investing into another gear.

CLICK HERE to Learn more about Tardus Wealth Strategies and start your passive income stream today!

Watch the Video Version HERE

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Transcript:

Adam
Hey, Rent To Retires. It’s Adam Schroeder here along with Zach Lemaster. And we have a special guest with us here today. He is Thurman McKenzie, he is a client with Tardus, who is a partner company who many of you have heard Tanisha on the show talking about the program itself. A lot of people who have invested three artists that are now you know, coming over with their fast burning fuel and looking for their long burning slow burning fuel through real estate. And we thought you know what people ask us to get in the specifics, but I don’t have any specifics yet. Because you know, I haven’t fully dove into it yet. But Thurman has dove into it. He’s going to talk today about what his experience has been. So Thurman, thanks for taking the time to join us today.

Thurman
Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. And I look forward to engaging with you guys.

Zach
I wanted to get someone that was at a real world experience with working with Tardus because and one of the beautiful things I think Adam would agree with me that doing these podcasts and being in the industry that we are is we get the chance to talk to a lot of people doing really cool things in the financial industry, like outside of real estate, even obviously, concerning real estate. But this is always eye opening for all of us when we when we network with other companies that are just really parallel with real estate, and really, overall financial savviness and literacy, and just really cool things that you can do to be more successful investor and obtain financial independence, which is really what it’s all about. And so Tardus is one of these things that I believe came came to us from a client that was a Taurus client that was like, Hey, did you guys know that you should probably talk to them about some cool things that they’re doing. And now we have hundreds of clients that have signed up with them, and seeing great success in their own financial endeavors as well as to scale their real estate portfolio. So with that, Thurman of again, appreciate your joining us as someone that’s been successful working with Tardus over a few years now, who’s also a real estate investor? Can you talk to us just a little bit for someone that doesn’t know it Tardus is? Or if you could explain that to someone that’s just like, Well, what exactly is that? How would you or how do you explain to to someone that has no idea what TARDIS is and what that program is about?

Thurman
Yeah. So thanks for the question. You know, so I have, I have begun, you know, I’ve been with Tardus now for two and a half years. And in witnessing the benefits of of my affiliation with them, I’ve begun sharing my experience with everyone that I come into contact with. And so I guess the best way, my start point with explaining what Tardus is, is, it’s a financial education company, right? They exist to help its clients achieve financial freedom by using a patented system that the CEO developed. But the key is what as soon as you hear those buzzwords, like patented system, financial education, immediately I know, when I heard it, you know, two and a half years ago, a little over two and a half years ago, you know, Ponzi schemes started going off in my head, all sorts of things I like, read your question marks like, oh, my gosh, you need to run. And so I had to do for myself do a little bit of research on my own. And what I love about about Tardus is literally you go onto the website, and they’ll show you exactly, they’ll lay out for you exactly, you know, what they do and what they provide. I know for me, I went I went the next step. So when I was watching the video, and went on to the to the website, Tanisha, the CEO talks about the patent that, that she was able to, to gain for the system. So I actually Googled the patent, I downloaded the patent, read it, read it, and then realized I was like, Oh, and this is I get this, this is like a calculator. And I by reading the patent, I actually pull it up. I’m not like super savvy, but I’m somewhat savvy. So I pulled up Microsoft Excel and actually modeled the patents on Excel. And like just ran the numbers for myself, just because I’m a kind of person that likes to see, like, I want to see this whole thing. And so I created the model myself on my Excel document, started plugging in some numbers and was like, Oh my gosh, this is this is real. This isn’t some sleight of hand, you know, sort of deal. And so that prompted me to reach out do a free consultation and then ultimately started what now is a two and a half year journey. At the end of the day, you know what Tardus is and the CEO has taken a bonafide look Literally and I can’t stress this enough, this is a bonafide system. I was telling, I was telling you prior to going live here, there’s a book that I, that I’ve read and it’s called the Three Secret Pillars of Wealth and kind of lays out these three pillars and it says, you know, cashflow, arbitrage, and leverage. And if you combine those three those three pillars together in a systematic way, that is a you know, if you study habits, attributes of of wealthy individuals, they leveraged those three pillars in order to generate wealth. Well, effectively what Tardus is done and Tanisha through the income snowball has has come up with a system that leverages cash flow, arbitrage and leverage to generate passive income in a met on a massive scale, it is literally in his bonafide, like literally follow the plan to follow the plan, it will work. I know the other concern that I had when I looked to start was okay, like, am I about to, you know, already have already have a steady job? am I signing up to take on a new job? Like how much how much effort, right, you know, I’m not looking for something for nothing. But at the same time, I want to know exactly how much effort I’m signing up. And interestingly enough, it’s not it’s no different from anything that I was doing. Previously, I track my money. I know, I know how much I’m spending each month, I know where that money is going. And I know how much is coming in? Well, the income snowball simply requires me to track where my money is going, and then allocate funds accordingly. And then use, you know, using leverage. And in the system, I generate passive income. I mean, it’s literally that simple.

Zach
So just to kind of clarify, and we want to get dive a little bit deeper into your specific story and talk numbers and everything from it. I mean, generally what what kind of the TARP program is, it’s not first of all, is is investing strategies, that is not new, they didn’t come up with these investing strategies he’s been around, people are doing this, but it’s really the approach in the systematic approach, and also the financial planning aspect of it, and how to stack those approaches. That’s really the unique aspect along with a coaching that comes alongside that right what you do need, I mean, coaching to really map out a plan and execute on it. But from what I understand, it’s this scenario where, and we’ve had so many clients that have come through and been like, they’ve come back to buy more real estate, you know, which is their long term hold, but capital that they’re generating, but wastes us certain things, and probably oversimplifying and making mistakes in this, but really kind of things like lines of credit, not not necessarily just investing all your own capital, do invest your capital, you know, in things like real estate, but ways that you can not use your own capital lines of credit and other creative ways. And then go out and invest diversified in areas where you can have higher rates of return, pay back the line of credit, and then stack that again, and just kind of revolve that again and again. Is that is that kind of fundamentally how the process works?

Thurman
That’s That’s exactly it. Right? I mean, so I would share. So prior to prior to joining Tardus, you know, I consider myself to be financially literate. I have an undergraduate degree in economics, I’m, you know, pretty, you know, economically savvy, you know, financially savvy, that kind of situation. And I finally, I think I follow the, you know, financial advice du jour, which was, okay, live below your means, you know, take what you you know, take your excess, and then, you know, you know, I played it safe, I wasn’t comfortable investing in stocks and what have you, but I had, you know, mutual funds, index funds and things of that nature, I had a retirement fund, I have, you know, the equivalent of a 401 K and Ira and then another brokerage account, and it was all about, okay, live below your means take everything else socket into the market, and you know, you know, you know, seek appreciation. And what Tardus is okay, so Tardus applies a different strategy, which is a, you know, you know, looking for to apply a passive income strategy. How do you generate? How do you generate passive income Tanisha gives the example of, you know, you ask the average financial advisor, you know, how much would you need in order to retire there, you know, the average is something like $1.6 million dollars. And most people sit back and say, Well, hey, how am I going to accumulate $1.6 million? Well, what’s easy? What’s, what seems more reasonable, accumulating $1.6 million? Or maybe you say that you need, you know, $5,000 a month to meet your bills and expenses, right? Is it does it seem more reasonable for you to acquire $5,000 in passive income or to accumulate $1.6 million to for most people I know, for me, the former seems to be much more reasonable. And so what What target says is okay, hey, you know, that’s the number, whatever your number is, you know, for financial freedom, let’s throw a number on it. And now let’s look at generating passive income through as you said, we’re going to use leverage. And so lines of credit lines of credit, we’re going to purchase assets that our income producing those that income that we receive from those assets, we’re going to use to pay down the line of credit, and then rinse and repeat. And then we’re going to add in, you know, an added to that is our own our own cash flow to help us do this in a in a in a, in the most rapid fashion.

Adam
I just want to emphasize the people, Thurman has not been paid to be on the show. Because I mean, he, he loves startups, he’s coming to talk to us about it, but they’re not just, you know, lining his pockets for him to come on and talk about it.

Zach
So, that’s important for us too, right? I mean, we’re not going we don’t just interview people out there for, you know, sole, self, you know, intentional items or things like I mean, we want to interview people that we’re personally interested in, and we want to see those actual success stories, same sort of thing. I mean, a lot of people actually approach us with the company that we’ve built in our public image with the larger group of clients that, like, hey, they want to, you know, present something to us. And we’re very careful to jump on board with with different things in something like this, it takes a little bit of time, we did a pass on it initially, I’ll be honest, because it’s just yeah, it’s to, you know, kind of left field. But as you know, I looked into it more, and we actually had people that were seeing success in it. And it also coupled with real estate, where it’s like, oh, you can add real estate in into this. And also, you know, expedite your goals. Like, because that’s really what it’s about real estate. We’re a real estate company, but it’s about how do you become financially literate and create financial independence, real estate’s not the only way? Now, it’s a great way, but you can also be a strategic investor doing these other things as well.

Thurman
No, I think you’re, I think you’re spot on like, so for me. At the end of the day, I mean, whatever vehicle you’re in, that’s the other thing I love about Tardus is, you know, they are, you know, investment vehicle agnostic, right? I mean, so if, if you’re comfortable with real estate, then go I mean, a real estate, if you want to avoid the market, there are other investment tools that can be used, you know, that that allow you to avoid the market, peer to peer lending, you know, things of that nature. But you know, the system the target system is, is vehicle investment, vehicle agnostic.

Zach
Let’s talk about your story, specifically Thurman. Because I think you shared with us a previous about your skepticism going into it. And you know, before, before you even we’re at the point where you would endorse something and we can feel that energy from you, right, like you endorses fully believing it, and you’ve been successful in it, right? Like you got to put in some time as, but you got to follow the system to be successful. But if you do that it’s a proven path. So let’s talk about maybe if you don’t mind sharing, like specific numbers, personally, kind of your timeline, you know, and how long it kind of took you to see results?

Thurman
Yes, absolutely. So, I became a member, I actually joined Tardus in October of 2019. But then got busy, and what have you and didn’t actually start investing in applying the system until February of 2020. So in February of 2020, I had my first coaching session with my client success coach with targets and so when you sign up to target, you get two coaches, you get a client success coach who you work with on a monthly basis. And then you get a wealth coach, who you meet with maybe twice a year, who has the sort of the bigger picture, sort of strategy for for you. But your your, your monthly engagement is with your clients success coach. So in that first meeting with my client success coach, we looked at what my current what my current cash flow was. And so my cash flow is defined by TARDIS is everything, once all your bills, and all of your requirements are paid, what is your leftover at the end of at the end of each month? And so my starting cash flow was was $5,000. So starting out with $5,000 of cash flow, what we did was we established an initial line of credit of $25,000. And so I started my initial what we call in TARDIS of flip was that the initial draw on your line of credit was $25,000. And so in February I drew from a from a personal line of credit that I had with a bank, I drew out $25,000 And I used and initially in 2020, I started with peer to peer lending and Lending Club.

Zach
And what is that for people that don’t know peer to peer lending?

Thurman
So, peer-to-peer lending Is, is a way is a means by which you can, you know, choose basically you become a lender to individuals, you can go online and purchase, purchase debt, you know, from other individuals. And then that debt pays you back principal plus interest.

Zach
And usually this is multiple, like you probably spread this out, right? This wasn’t one individual you lent this to.

Thurman
Exactly. So the example the example is okay, so I have $25,000, right? And you let’s say you have a business you want to start, you need $25,000. Well, if I lend you my $25,000, all Yeah, that’s great. You can pay me back, but all the risk is now borne on you. So you default on now out of luck. So it’s best. So peer to peer lending allows me to diversify and sort of reduce that risk by saying, Hey, I’m not going to give Adam you know, or Zach, you know, all $25,000. Instead, I’m gonna give Adam and Zach, maybe, you know, $500, or $50. And I’m gonna find a whole bunch of other people, right? Who need money, and I’m gonna lend that out. That way, I’ve reduced the risk, but I also I’m getting my principal and interest return. So that’s what peer to peer lending allows us to do.

Adam
So go through that. So you, you took out $25,000, you invested that in peer to peer? How long was your flip? Because a lot of those peer to peer are like three years or, you know, a year or something like that they’re not? You talked about how many flips you’ve done. Your flips are not one year, three year flip.

Zach
And what kind of trends are you seeing kind of rate of return on that?

Thurman
Yeah, exactly. So I’ll give you again, if you so that first there in February, I drew 25,000 went into Lending Club, and on at the time, they no longer offer this, and I will tell about the change that occurred from 2020 to 2021. But Lending Club used to have a secondary market where you could go in and you could buy and you could buy, you know, debt instruments notes. And so what I did was I bought 1000 $25 debt notes, right. So I bought, I found 1000 people who needed 25 bucks to $25,000 dispersed amongst them, right and bought that, right. And clicks? Yeah, right? No, no, the interestingly enough, it was at the time with their secondary market, it was really quick, it was really easy. And so I was able to initially, you know, get that first $25,000 invested, you know, within a week, the I began receiving returns on that initial investment in the first month. So I started receiving, I think I got my first distribution at the end of March. And, and those, and basically what I started, so $25,000 investment, I was receiving $785 roughly a month.

Zach
And that’s principal and interest returning.

Thurman
That’s exactly that’s principal and interest returning to me, these were three year, these were three year $25 notes. And so you could reasonably expect them to hold their term for three years, plus or minus, you know, plus or minus several months. But from that, from that investment, I started to receive $785, you know, the next month. So what I had, what I did was I took the $785 from that investment, plus my monthly cash flow of 5000. And I use that combined to pay down my initial line of credit. It took me by applying that just rinse and repeat March, April, May, June, July, I think I want to say in August, so six months, I paid off the first line of credit, I paid it so it took me six months to pay off the line of credit. I still have so six months, they remember those are, you know, 36 month notes. So I just burned up six months, it’s still that that that initial investment is still going to pay out $785 for roughly 30 months after that. And so what I did not my line of credit was paid off, what I did was I drew $25,000 Again, and did the same thing all over again in August. So I purchased $25,000 in notes. And now what I was receiving was the $785 from the first investment plus another 785 From the second investment. So now I’m bringing in you know, just over 1500 That coupled with that coupled with my $5,000 of cash flow, now allow me to pay down my line of credit and I was able to pay down my line for August August September timeframe because it took me a while it took a little bit longer Lending Club in towards the end of 2020 phased out at second. the dairy market. And so it took me longer, it took me about a month to get that money fully invested. So it wasn’t fully invested until I want to say mid September. But by December, so October, November, December, by December, I had paid off that second draw. And I was in January, I was able to do it all over again. So in January, so So once Linden club about, you know, got rid of its secondary market. That’s when we looked at other what we call fast burning fuel that was, you know, what the Lending Club was doing, if it’s this fast burning fuel that’s providing principal plus interest. And so that’s where, through working with TARDIS, I was introduced to another company called legacy wealth management. And so legacy wealth management was in working with TARDIS they realized what people were going through and their struggles. And so what they did was they develop a, a synthetic Investment Fund, that model that mirrored the performance of Lending Club, effectively. And so what they did was they combined a series of a series of different investments, both, you know, liquid and long term that provided, you know, the equivalent level of returns, the aim of that fund is to provide a 6% 6% return, it could, it could be higher, it could be lower, but the aim is to provide a 6% a 6% return on investment. And we’re not you know, with the with this model, I’m not really concerned about the rate of return I’m what I want is that that large, that principal and interest payment, because that principal and interest that steady principal and interest payment over a defined period of time, coupled with my cash flow is what allows me to turn as rapidly as I do.

Zach
And each time you’re adding you have this baseline $5,000 cash flow, every flip of paying off that credit, which happens sooner, that’s, of course a snowball, right? If you’re paying off the next line of credit sooner, because every time you’re adding that additional, you know, stream of cash flow from those notes. And so I guess, is the idea. And, of course, I want to move to talking about okay, fast forward to where you’re at today and compare that to kind of your, your pension that you talked about previously, I think that would be outstanding to hear, but kind of long term is the idea that, you know, at some point, because it sounds like this is still somewhat active, it’s not a full time job, but like, you kind of need to be doing this on a regular basis, right?

Thurman
Yeah, yeah, maybe. But I mean, we’re talking about we’re talking about a couple of clicks, clicks on a on a mouse or a keyboard, right? I mean, literally, here’s, here’s my schedule, on the first of the month, I receive my distribution, okay, I take that I take those distributions, coupled with whatever cash flow that I have, if I have an ongoing line of credit, draw, I then take that money, and transfer it over to the line of credit, pay down the line of credit, and keep it moving. Right. If it’s a month, we’re on paying off the line of credit, I pay off the line of credit. And then I just reach back out to legacy. And I say, Hey, I’m ready to schedule my next flip. Right? And so I schedule, I scheduled a schedule my next flip, and I say, hey, you know, here’s the amount that I, my next flip is going to be in this amount for this term, you know, the 36 months. And, and legacy pools that money out of my account, and they pull it as long as it’s invested before the 20th of the month, I receive a distribution on the first of the next month. I mean, it really cannot get any simpler than that.

Zach
And you can automate it sounds like you I mean, you really have it, yeah. Down packed here. Like it’s it’s a systematic approach for you. So it’s less time intensive, and you have the plan of how you’re going to consistently do that.

Thurman
Exactly. Exactly.

Adam
So your first flip was six months, your second one sounded like it was roughly four. At what point does it get to the point where your flip is so quick that it makes sense to get a higher line of credit, or kind of how have you structured you’re investing in that way?

Thurman
So fantastic. So So let’s fast forward to 2021 so it’s 2021 January, I initiate a flip for January, I initially ate a flip, February March, I initiated another flip, you know, because I was I got hungry. So I actually started finding, you know, once I saw how this was going, I actually started finding you know, extra money here and there. So 5000 I hit $5,000 the extra cash flow went to like, I think in January I was able to up it to like 5500 Because I saw you know the return and how quickly I can make this happen. But then in the middle in the summer so I did a flip in January flip in March. Another one in May, and then in the summer. So last summer, I had to move. And that through my that through that through the functional way off a little bit. And so I had to, you know, I had to you know, I missed it, I missed one of the My Schedule flips, just because I wasn’t able to monitor and manage the money the way that I wanted to. But that’s okay. Because I was once I was able to finish the move get settled in, I was able to to, to pick up right where I left off in September. And so I did another flip in September, and then a flip in November at that point. Yes, September and then October. So at that point, I’m spinning so quickly, I’m basically flipping every other month. At that point, were working with my coach, we realized, Okay, it’s time to increase my line of credit. So I went from an initial line of credit of 25,000. And we increased it to 37,500. And so I did my first $37,500 line of credit draw in December of last year.

Adam
So how long did that make your flips now? Is that just now you’re doing it every three months?

Thurman
Yeah. So how about this one, so December, so December, I did a you know, the first $37,500 Flip. My next flip at 37. Five occurred in March. So January, initiated in December. So January, February, March, three months. So did a flip in March, did another one in May did another one in July. And I’m set to do another one in September, at which point in November, I’ll increase my flip again, and I’ll jump up to 56,000 6000.

Zach
As you’re building credit and paying it back, I mean, you can increase those lines, I guess in theory, you could even take out additional lines. Right. I mean..

Thurman
Yeah, exactly. I mean, so like, so for me, for me, I have a right now I’m managing. So, you know, in order to do this, you know, I have a, I have a brokerage account, which I use as a pledged asset line. So I’m able to draw against that brokerage account. So that’s where like the book and that that has a pretty high, pretty high line. But then I have right now I have two personal lines of credit with different banks. I’m actually in the process of applying for another personal line of credit, you know, and credits credits. Great, right, because I’m, you know, I draw and I pay it off. I’m timely in a timely manner. And so yeah, I mean..

Zach
And possibly a HELOC. Right? I mean, you could HELOC too, I’m sure.

Thurman
So that’s another thing I was exploring. Because I mean, as I start looking in the out years here, in about three years, you figure in about well, in about three years, I project that my, my draw my lines of credit, will be you know, I’ll be drawn anywhere from 90 to $125,000. Right. Okay. So very few banks are going to, you know, allow you to draw, you know, have a personal line of credit for, you know, $125,000 or whatever. Right. And so in that case, that’s where a HELOC would work extremely well. So yeah.

Zach
I love that you said, you know, talked about the interest rate return, because if someone could look at Oh, well, you know, 6% is nothing write home about, you know, investing in one of these things, but it’s really nothing to do with the return. It’s about how you’re systematically recycling it. Right?

Thurman
It’s about the it’s about cash flow. Right. I mean, so at the end of the day, the analogy that I use is a bank, right? How does a bank make money? And yeah, obviously, there’s the arbitrage, right? The amount that it’s able to the difference between how much it’s got to pay out in order to get your deposit, and how much it charges for loans or what have you. So yes, there’s a component to that. But it’s also how quickly can that bank turn that dollar? Right. And so you know, when I when that when that bank gets its deposit, it doesn’t just sit on it. What it does is it takes your deposit and loans it out, and it loans it out, in order to get in order to get you know, returns and when it gets that return, it loans it out again. And the quicker the quicker that bank is able to turn those dollars, as as long as those dollars are moving. It’s generating money, and it doesn’t matter like it. Again, I don’t need some huge. I don’t need some huge return on the dollar. I just need that dollar to keep moving.

Zach
That is awesome. For a minute. I appreciate you saying that. I mean, that’s a beautiful analogy.

Thurman
I think they I think there’s a there’s an analogy. I think if you go online or maybe on Tardus, they have an example of if you took a penny if you took a penny and doubled it every day, right, double double that return every day for 30 days. You know, it’s interesting that the sort of the value, that number that comes out, it’s something like $100,000 or something.

Adam
I think it’s around a million.

Thurman
A million something like, it’s a crazy, it’s a crazy and you would think, okay, how does that happen from one pinning? Well, it’s because of the it’s the rate. It’s the return. But it’s also the rate at which is your, your, you’re making those returns.

Zach
Yeah, time, time is essential. Time. That’s the return. Exactly. And that’s harder to quantify and think about for most people. Well, let’s kind of fast forward to where you’re at today. And okay, yeah, you’ve kind of walked us through your, your process, and, you know, what is your cash flow look like today? And how does that compare to some other financial income that you have?

Thurman
Yeah, absolutely. So, so right now, just from just from my, you know, Snowball, if you will, my Snowball is generating now $9,500 a month. And so I’ve done, I’ve done a total of 10 flips. 10 flips today, and, and those flips are generating $9,500 a month. Now that we talked about how Tardu is you know, investment vehicle agnostic. So what happened with me in year two, so last year 2021. And working with Tardus, I began employing some nuisance, some additional strategies, specifically real estate. So you know, so you’re one I was just doing my flips. In the year two, what I did was I used existing funds that I had to purchase some rental properties, specifically, I purchased three rental properties, three turnkey rental properties, three years, three properties, four units, because one of the properties is kind of like a duplex. But so purchase four units, each of those units immediately cash flowing, roughly about $300 per per door. So bringing in bringing in net cash flow from those from those rental units. $1,200. So now, I talked about previously where I had $5,000 of cash flow. Now I’ve got $6,200 in cash flow, to throw back into my into my snowball and make it turn even faster. And then and then this year, this year, I applaud it employed another strategy where I was able to take some money, some money that was in my, in my tsp. In my TSP, the equivalent of of a 401 K, you can take a loan from your T from your 401 K or tsp and everyone initially, everyone says don’t do it, don’t take a loan. Right. And so I was like, okay, but that’s understanding this idea of cash flow, arbitrage and leverage, I was like, There’s got to be a way because I can borrow, I was able to borrow the money at 2.5% interest. So if I can borrow, if I can borrow the money, and had I had I borrowed it earlier, I was actually looking at it in January, and the interest rate was 1.5%. Right? Unfortunately, I just didn’t pull the trigger fast enough. And so the interest rate went up a little bit before I was able to pull the trigger. So I took a I took a $50,000 loan this year. And then what I did was I took I took 35,000 of it and I’ve used it as a downpayment for a rental property, a turnkey real property that I just closed on last month, I took the other 15,000 and I invested it with legacy on a shorter time frame, a 24 month, 24 month amortize timeframe that provides principal plus interest. The reason why I did that was because effectively what I what I was able to do was cover the first two years and payments. And so now all of that rent income, you know, all of the income that’s coming from, well, I was able to pay, basically pay the TSP loan, right for two years guarantee tsp loan payback for two years. And now all the cash flow coming from that rental property is now adding to my snowball, then two years from now, I’ll look at doing one of two things either I’ve accumulated enough equity in that property where I can do a, you know, do a HELOC and maybe pay off the TSP loan rinse and repeat. Do it all over again. Or you know, or possibly do a cash depending on rates are cash out, refinance, you know, pay off that rinse and repeat, but I was, you know, only through working with targets and realizing like, oh my gosh, right. Again, it comes down to cash flow arbitrage leverage, you throw those together in a bonafide system. There’s the magic.

Adam
Yeah. And I want to say, you know, Thurman’s, talking about, you know, doing four flips a year at 37. Five, you know, you’re looking at $150,000 This is not a man based on what I talked about, who makes you know, $250,000 a year because he has to live off some and pay back others. You know, that is not the case here. He’s not a, you know, walking multimillionaire who’s doing this, right?

Thurman
[laughs] No, absolutely not.

Zach
Not yet, Adam.

Thurman
And that’s a that’s a great point. Not yet because I think the other thing, I think the other thing that Todd is sort of the the light bulb for me really came on. I mean, again, I always say that I’m a slow burning bold, so the light doesn’t come on very quickly. But when it does, like it’s burnin strong or diesel engine, they’re exactly right. And so working with my coach this year, at the start of this year, one of the things I realized now after reflecting on two years of working with them was, you know, like, why am I you know, why am I sort of, I hate to use the term, but why am I selling mice selling myself? And this system is short? Like, why not go for the gusto, alright, and that’s what my coach was like, Well, hey, like, what do you want to do, like, put it, you know, dream as big as you can dream. And then once you’ve become clear about what that dream is, put a number on it, right, and then come back. And let’s talk about how we engineer engineer a path to get there. I say it in another way. And so in my line of work, you know, my professional line of work, we plan in a very deliberate process, we start with, we’re you know, and we start with where we want to end, right, and then we backwards engineer, have a plan to get there. And the reason why we do that is because you know, at least you have some reasonable expectation that if you follow this path, you will get to where you want to go, right. And so I do that professionally. Interestingly enough, you know, why I would not apply the same in my personal life, I don’t know, like, you know, for for 15 plus years, what I did was, hey, live below my means, chuck this money over into the market and hope that it does what I want it to do. Well, Tardis flips that model on its head and says, No, put a number on it, put a date on it, what do you want to do? When do you want to do it. And now Now, it’s just a matter of now it’s just math, we can backwards engineer you a way to get you to where you want to go.

Zach
That’s awesome. I love that so much there, man. And this is just you’re hyping me up here is exciting. But this is the same kind of stories, we’re hearing from a lot of people that come back and they’re like, look, look what I’m doing. I have and also I’m a lot I’m able to buy more real estate. I mean, I want to talk about that a little bit more how real estate fits into all of this, and how do you make the decision between, you know, using when to buy real estate. But $9,500 a month within what, two, two and a half years, you said.

Thurman
Exactly. Within two and a half years.

Zach
That’s exceptional. Starting at a $25,000 line of credit, essentially and $5,000 baseline cash flow to pay that back, we were able to accomplish that. I mean, that’s tangible. I love that.

Thurman
That’s real. I mean, I think that, you know, the the other you know, so the analogy that I give is, so I’ve been working in my current line of work for 23 years. If I were to retire today, after working for 23 years, my pension would be roughly $7,500. So it took me 23 years to build a pension of $7,500 a month. And two Now granted, now that’s gonna last me for the rest of my life, I got it. In two and a half years of working with targets and applying the TARDIS strategy, I have been able to generate and I’m now generating $9,500 A month $9,500 A month. Right? And, and if I now, again, what I want to do is, you know, as I continue to apply this process and everyone, if you’re if you’re scrutinizing, you’re saying yeah, but it takes you it takes, you know, $5,000 of your own cash flow to drive this engine. Okay, I got you Yeah, I fully understand. But I can drive this engine up, right and I can get this engine revenues so high to where I no longer have to contribute to it anymore. And it will be self sustaining. And that’s the whole point of the system. Again, not get rich quick scheme rather be very deliberate and systematic about what you’re doing over time and allow and apply sound principles.

Adam
Let’s go to the coaching sessions real quick. A couple of things earlier you mentioned you know, mouse clicks and time that way so with your flips now on a on an average month, kind of how much time do you spend doing that and tell us a little bit about the different coaching sessions like what do you go over with your you know, your there was a wealth coach and there was a client success coach client successful so what is that meeting like and what’s the wealth coach meeting like?

Thurman
Okay, so I’ll start with the your first question the time commitment, right. So so the time commitment in terms of managing this is really, I can’t stress So I mean, it’s, look, I’m when it comes to my money, I’m type A, I want to, I want to know where my money’s going. So, so I track I have a, I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use, and I track where my money’s gone, you know, to the to the dollar. I mean, I know exactly what it was, you know, everything that’s going out and everything that’s coming in. But, but now that’s excessive, right? You know that that’s excessive, but and what does that translate to at the end of each week. So usually, on Saturdays, what I do is I dedicate about an hour to sit down and I go through my receipts, unfortunately, because I do everything via I tried to do all my transactions via credit card. So it’s all captured. So literally, at the end of each week, I sit down at my computer, I pull up my credit card, boom, I go through, you know, all the light transactions, I categorize them appropriately in my spreadsheet that I maintained for myself. And that’s that’s that, right, so a week on a weekly basis, one hour sitting down just tracking my money. In terms of my flips, here’s what happens, it is literally a one day transaction on the first or second, you know, maybe sometimes depending on whether the first fill on the weekend or not. But I get my distribution from legacy, I get my distribution from my snowball, right, that literally just pops is deposited right into my right into my checking account, I take that distribution, if I have an ongoing line of credit, I take that distribution, plus my cash flow from the from the from the last month, and I and I redirect that money to the line of credit and pay it down. Literally, I mean, like not even 10 minutes, okay, not even 10 minutes, and I’m done for the month, boom rounds complete. Once it’s a month where I am paying off that line of credit. So let’s say I pay off that line of credit here on the first or the third of the month. So then, then what I do is I go to my, to my client contacted legacy, I schedule an appointment sometime before the 20th to initiate my next flip on that call on that call is a five minute call. I literally say, Hey, I’m ready to initiate my next flip, please draw 30 In my case, right now, it’s 37,500. Please draw $37,500 from my account. And, and we do that he Okay, great, fantastic and invest for 36 months, that’s where that’s the the amortization schedule that I’m on right now. Because you can have different schedules, you can have a two years schedule a three year schedule, five years schedule, but that’s what your workout with your coach. And so after that phone call, which is all of a couple of minutes, I hang up and boom, he pulls the money from my account, as long as the money is invested before the 20th on the first of the next month. 10 days later, I’m receiving a distribution from that investment. And I just rinse and repeat. Boom. So there’s the time, there’s the time invested. So if an hour, it’s an hour each weekend to review my finances, and then it’s maybe 10 minutes to move money around at the beginning of each month. And then it’s another five minute phone call. When I’m ready to initiate flips. There’s the time commitment.

Zach
And that’s beautiful. And because you have the system down now and probably there’s a little bit more time like, like conceptualizing and planning and in goal planning really, right. I mean, in the very beginning, you gotta, you need to come up with a plan. And I think that’s I love the simple fact that TARDIS has the planning calculator where they can tell you exactly okay, this is you’re talking about reverse engineering? Well, if you want to be at $10,000 a month passive income, here’s the timeline, it will take you to get there. Right?

Thurman
Right. And so and I think that I think the other piece is it’s sort of it takes this, this sort of this this mystery away. I was actually thinking about this this morning, you know, ultimately, what my, what my affiliation with Tardus has enabled me to do is to run my own race, to live life on my terms. Look, if I want, if I want to be if you know, if I want, you know, to bring in $30,000 a month, you know, you know, per year, what Tardus is said is I don’t need to be super exceptional. I just need to be disciplined and focused, right? Become discipline and focus and boom, I can achieve it. I don’t need to wish that I could inherit anything. No, it’s a math problem. And what’s hard is is that is it math? Right? Maybe literally. The other point that you may, Zack was, you talked about that the other time commitment. So this gets into Adams second point about the coaching sessions. So every month, I meet with my clients success coach for, you know, anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour. So in that, in that coaching session, what we do is we review.

I’ll set you for the first year because it’s, it’s changed now now that I now that I better appreciate what the coaching is about, because at the end of the day, remember what coaching is intended for coaching isn’t meant to tell you, Okay, do you know put left foot in front of right ship Wait, now put right foot in front of left? No coaching is intended to be a sounding board for you to come in and generate your ideas. And now, you know, As Napoleon Hill in his book, you know, when he talks about the mastermind, what’s your coaches? Is that sounding board for you to be able to share in a crazy idea that you have and say, Okay, here’s how we put some structure behind that, that idea of yours. Or, hey, you know, like, I really want to take this, you know, vacation next year. Okay, here’s how we’re going to go about, here’s some ways that you can go about doing that when without upsetting your your current plan, right? And so, early on my first year, my coaching sessions were all about just mastering the system fully understanding, okay, how does this line of credit thing work? How do I like what I didn’t know, I had no idea, I had no idea that banks even offered a line of credit. And I was like, so we’re gonna like go, what am I asking for? What am I looking for? So so the coaching sessions, again, the coaching sessions are all about gearing you up towards applying the system. And the so the first year, you’re just going to talk through and exercise the system, and it’s going to get a little bit monotonous. But in the first year, you really just need to go through the motions of understanding of understanding how things flow. So that event allows me in my second year, to begin, as I, as I mentioned, to you guys, begin to explore some additional strategies. Now I’ve got the baseline snowball in place. Now let’s throw some let’s throw some rental properties. On top of that, oh, by the way, let’s throw some tax strategies in on there, right? And oh, you know, let’s talk about, you know, some other cost savings opportunities that, you know, strategies that are there. So that’s what I did all throughout my second year, and that once I saw the wheels turning, well, that got my own, you know, idea of flowing. And that’s where I came up with this whole tsp arbitrage thing. Like that wasn’t from coming from Tardus, that was me sitting down saying, wait a second, there’s this pot of money that’s sitting out here. And it’s just sitting there. How can I get this money into action? And understanding that system is like, Hey, this is what I’m thinking about doing. So in a coaching session, I latest plan out to my coach, and he says, okay, Thurman, how about this? What about, you know, have you considered X, Y or Z? Okay, so I go back after that session, and I do some more thinking. And in a second session of follow up, we revisit the plan, right. And so there we go. Right now, my coaching sessions are all about, you know, early on in 2022. This year, we laid out a strategy for me, and I was very transparently. So this year was all about transitioning my IRA from a from a standard IRA to a self directed IRA, then creating a snowball within my IRA. And so what I’m doing is I’m currently in the process of closing on two rental properties within my self directed IRA, I’m gonna do that coupled with legacy to generate a snowball within my self directed IRA, and boom, so I’m in the process of implementing that, as well as that tsp arbitrage strategy that I implemented. And that’s roughly my 2022 plan. And then what I anticipate happening is once I’m able to put all that into action, probably come, you know, October, November timeframe, we’re going to start strategizing about 2023. Hey, what are the strategies we want to employ for 2023? And that’s the whole benefit of the coaching.

Zach
It truly becomes a snowball over time, right? And you’re applying this main strategy to other areas. I mean, this is like eye opening for you, right? Because you’re like, Well, look, I can tap into this tsp and apply the same principles here and just open up the door to get these these compounding effects, which, which is awesome. And I think is a couple of things. For someone listening to this as no idea about TARDIS. I mean, just for full transparency. I think that it will a couple of points. It’s good to know that there’s additional tax benefits and tax ways like the question would be like, Okay, this income is fully taxed, will probably not because it’s it’s principal and interest payments back. Right. So it’s reduced to on tax. People want to know, well, what is it program cost? Right. And frankly, I don’t know the exact amount. It’s a few $1,000 To sign up, but I can tell you, it’s significantly worth it. Based on just what we’ve seen, I’ve sent my family and my brother and brother in law and sister to to artists based on clients that have told me their success stories. You know, so there’s coaching programs that are hundreds of 1000s of dollars. Right. So I think that’s full transparency, probably about what it is, but completely worth it. Right?

Thurman
I think I think the and I’ve been struggling with this one as well, right? Because I know, I’ve referred a lot of people and the first thing they’ll say is, hey, I went on to the website, but you know, they don’t listen anything about their prices or anything like that. Alright. And I said, okay, so pause for a second here, just just pause for a second, you know, if you go to, if you go to some educational, you know, some some Institute, you know, be at a college or, or if you want to study and if you want to study and, and get a certificate or some sort of specialty or whatever, right, you’re paying for education, and I go back to my initial point, Tardis, Tardis is a financial education company, right? At the end of the day, whether they have a patented system, but at the end of the day, what they’re selling is, you know, access to education, knowledge that ultimately results in and in financial freedom. Okay. And so what you are doing and, and the whole point of Tartus is not that you are you know, a lifelong member with TARDIS. No, I mean, the whole point of TARDIS is to achieve financial freedom, so that you don’t have to be a member who are right, like you’ve achieved financial freedom, you can go off and do whatever you want to do. So you’re trying to acquire knowledge, you know, through, you’ve got a bonafide system, and you’ve got coaching. So through that coaching is not just, you know, the the grit, the great thing about the coach is, I’m not just connecting with my coach, but my coach has, you know, have connections with the rest of the coaching staff. And oh, by the way, Tanisha, I thought it was interesting. So I attended, I attended the summit. This is where I met us back in back in March in Florida. And so I attended the summit there in Florida, with them. And it was my first time attending a summit. And, and I met Tanisha and Chris, and I didn’t realize and so I introduced myself, and they’re like, oh, Thurman, we know about you, you’re like you, we’ve been reviewing, we were reviewing one of your coaching sessions, right? So they, they are legitimately invested in the business. Now, I’m not going to suggest in any way that they’re reviewing all of the hundreds. And, you know, I don’t know how many clients they have, but for me to show up at the summit, right? And for these books for the CEO, and the CEO to know me, and, and not just know me by name, but to know me by like, hey, yeah, I remember that coaching session that you had, how’s that going for you?

Zach
That’s cool. And they care, right? I mean, there’s they have legitimate, you know, they haven’t operate with integrity, which not everyone does in the financial coaching space. I mean, that’s, that’s what makes people skeptical. Right? Surprise, surprise, but, but they actually care. Right? And obviously, that’s why, you know, we see that and that’s the same way I feel about my company and everyone here in our clients.

Thurman
Can I talk it? Can I get Zach, I’m sorry, Hey, can I just talk about your company? Right. And so while I’ve not had yet had an opportunity to close a deal with your company, I’ll tell you, my experience with your company thus far has been fantastic. So shortly after that summit in action, and certainly after that summit, you know, it was working with my coach on developing my 2022 plan. And so it reached out to and I can’t remember her name now. I think Cori. Cori, yes. had reached out to Cori. So a couple of things that stood out to me about interacting with your company, one responsive, like, I blast the message out, I get, I’m getting a response, like within, within, certainly within 24 hours, he usually within a couple of hours from from having sent the message. So I really appreciate their responsiveness. The other thing I really appreciated about Cori was, you know, Cori was not afraid to pick up the phone and just close the gap. Hey, look, you know, let me make sure because I tried to leave some things out in the email, like what I was looking for, and what have you. And I probably did a poor job of communicating that Cori just picks up the phone and says, Hey, you guys, I figured we could go back and forth on email. But let me let me just give you a call. And let me just close the gap here. And let me make sure that I totally understand what you’re looking for. And so she did that on multiple occasions. And I sincerely appreciate that. We were unfortunately we were really close. We were moving forward towards potentially closing on one property, unfortunately, and there wasn’t nothing wrong. Nothing that that on your company side. As much as it was the lender that I was trying to work with. Unfortunately, the lender, we couldn’t get the lender to work it so that’s why we weren’t able to proceed with with one of the properties that we were pursuing there with you but I I, you know, that feel that the fact that the fact that it’s personalized, that you are invested in that quarry, like, here it is Cori was funny because she called me just as she was getting ready to take off on a vacation. And she’s like, Hey, I’m still although I’m on vacation, I’m always working. And she’s like, Hey, but But you know, I know we’re working through this. And I just want to make sure that I understand. I’ll keep you informed. And so I really appreciate that. And let’s certainly look forward to working with you guys going forward.

Zach
Well, I appreciate those kind words. And I’ll be sure to share that with Cory. I mean, that is important where everyone here is passionate about real estate, and more passionate about helping helping people accomplish their financial goals. Because I mean, at the end of the day, that’s rewarding, right? We can sell real estate and all day long. But is that really exciting and motivating? We don’t need to be selling real estate, you know?

Thurman
Exactly. It’s a means it’s a means to an end. And there are some people who are just gung ho about real estate. I mean, God bless you. For me, for me, it’s just a vehicle, like, it’s a vehicle.

Zach
And we believe in it, right? We’re passionate about it. And real estate allowed me to leave my former former profession. So and we’re and we’re professionals, we know it and we teach it and we believe in it. And we want to see people be successful. That doesn’t mean it’s all sunshine and rainbows. But that’s part of it. And I appreciate it, Thurman if you if you have any, like final advice or words for someone that’s like, hey, this sounds really interesting. I love them. And story, I’m not so sure. Like, you know, like, what would you recommend to them?

Thurman
Okay, so here’s the deal, right? Just reach out, literally, if you go to tardis.com www.target.com, review the material that’s there, you can request right off of the website, you can request a free consultation free, like they’re not going to, you know, they’re not trying to sell you want anything or anything like that, literally, they’re gonna sit down there, one of the world coaches will reach out to you. And, and they’ll talk to you about, hey, this is what TARDIS can do for you, they’ll ask for some information from you, because they need, you know, just some basic information in terms of, you know, what your cash flow is things of that nature, I don’t know, I’m not a wealth coach. But you know, they’ll, they’ll reach out to you, it’s totally free. And then it’s up to you to decide. But there are no hard sales or anything like that. It’s just, hey, this is what we can do for you. So if you’re really, if you’re interested, I just, I would challenge you know, even if you’re even if you’re skeptical, just go online, go to the website, review the material that’s on their website, and at a minimum, just request the free consultation, just if you just do that, then they will arm you with all the information that you need to make a decision as to whether or not it’s whether or not it’s a good fit. I’m also available, I’m online, you can reach out to me I’m happy to you know, I’m happy to share any other additional details. From my experience. Like I said, I just think I know for me, what what you know, target is coming into my life two and a half years ago has allowed me to do is now is really opened my eyes to living life on my terms. And I don’t think there’s you know, the other way that I would say this is, you know, after, you know, prior to TARDIS, I spent 15 plus years, like living below my means investing, like following the financial advice as your and I had accumulated Don’t, don’t get me wrong, I had accumulated a pretty significant sum, right? But despite what I had accumulated, I still did not have the peace of mind that I had done enough. It was I was I was still questioning like, hey, is this going to be enough? In two and a half years of working with TARDIS I now have peace of mind that I’m not where I need. I’m not where I want to be. But I’m but I know that I’m on a bonafide path towards getting to where I want to where I want to be, and that the peace of mind alone is worth it.

Zach
And it’s all because you took action, right?

Thurman
Right.

Adam
When you talk about you know, you bought real estate while doing this with TARDIS. Did you have any pushback from lenders about the fact that you’d had so many lines of credit that you were paying off? Or you had an open line of credit?

Thurman
Zero. All right, because Because again, like when I went in credit scores go zero to 850. Right. Okay. So like, you know, as a result of, you know, my credit score is great. But it’s interesting, actually, because the the one the one lender, the one lender, actually, when I got my credit report was like, dude, like, like, effectively, it was like you like, make the rate, what rate do you want, you know, like, boom, right? So, you know, bottom line is no pushback, no pushback at all.

Zach
I mean, that could be a car loan, right? 25K. Most people will have more than that and just consumer debt.

Thurman
Exactly. Exactly.

Adam
Yeah. Fantastic to hear well, Thurman, we really appreciate your time he gave out a website, but I got a better one for you. Because there’s some free goodies in there. And that’s at renttoretirement.com. That’s renttoretirement.com/incomesnowball. I think you get some extra freebies with that one. So head on over there. He mentioned if you have any questions, you can reach out to him. Just send an email to podcast at rent to retirement.com. We’ll make sure it gets to him and he can answer any questions that you have or you can ask us questions and we’ll answer them on the air. You know to send you an email back if you don’t want us to read it on the air. So that’s podcast@renttoretirement.com. Really appreciate you coming to share your story with us Thurman. It was fantastic. Some great numbers for people to hear. For everybody else, leave a review on our podcast platform. We greatly appreciate it and we’ll talk to you on the next episode.